Category: News and Views
Seems both the left end of the radio dial and conservatives are expressing cynicism over the value of the much valued 'college degree'. If I had a dime for every time my mother whined, "You'll never get anywhere without a degreeee....". Bleah, I'd retire tomorrow. Columnists like Michael Graham cite massive rates of unemployment as well as student loan debt and college degrees getting much more common than they were at the turn of the century as evidence the Bachelors' degree isn't worth as much as it once was.
I say don't rule out degrees altogether, but maybe it is time for a reverse of the mindset of "Go to college, then decide what you want to do with your life." Instead, come up with a plan, THEN see if it does or doesn't require college. Apply for financial aid if needed if it does, and I can see one change of major (I did it), but that's it. Five year plan max to graduate unless you go part time and work full time or at least part time, which is probably better as you're also getting some work experience. If your post high school plan DOESN'T require even a two year degree, than it doesn't, many jobs college grads do now don't require but a high school diploma. Perhaps one strategy that might work instead is instead of buying into the "You'll get nothing without a college degree mantra" is to find work and when you feel you have a niche there, see if moving ahead would require further education. Then perhaps students would value more what they're doing in school than those who go feeling no other choice and "Partying hardy" the whole time they're there. What are your thoughts?
My feelings are mixed on this: I think everyone having difficulty with academia has valid points, and it would behoove academia to once again move to make themselves more relevant.
This they did once before when they quit the requisite Greek and Latin, to support people who needed to better educate themselves for the business world.
The major problem, and I felt it even in the latter 80s / early 90s, is that academia and business are very separated. You can learn to write for academia while at aschool, but not write a proposal worthy of anything corporate. I'm amazed at what the interns from university aren't taught in my own field. Lots and lots of theory related to things that don't even exist in the industrial complex: kids who don't even know the reason for source control etc.
Yet culturally it is still relevant, and having a diploma at least says that you finished. I dunno: the price tag is pretty steep now and student loans are staggering, and academia has no idea what the rest of the world is up to.
thank you very, very much for shedding some much needed light on this view. I can't express in words how much I appreciate it. I'm not against college in any way, shape or form, but people need to realize that college isn't going to be your pass through life. I've heard of people who have no degree, and are now making more money than some who do. Still others have a PHD and are now struggling to pay back their student loans and make ends meet with other bills with a dead end job.
My conclusion? You can certainly accomplish something big in college, but make sure it's really what you want to do before making this possibly life changing decision, for better or for worse.
In short, skip the Women's Studies or other degree that won't get you a job except maybe at an alternative bookstore.
Pointing at self: I finished with a Liberal Arts degree this was before I ever knew a thing about computers, and while any employer can see that I finished, that's about it.
I had been heading for an International Studies degree but due to medical and financial issues had had to short circuit and finish but even the International Studies degree no longer contains the usefulness it at one time had.
The Get your College done first comes from an era when employers took on young post-graduates and thought it financially smart to basically train them in to their way of doing things, provide them with the work experience as it related to their products and services. Frankly we're talking mid 1980s and before.
Like everything else anymore it only has value as it applies to where you're going. So, if you get a certification from a technical school, then go on to get your MBA later in life if you want to, that will work. But where student loans have interest rates like credit cards, it does in fact force a very real rethink of everything.
What a coincidence! I myself was looking at an International Relations degree, which combined, politics, economics, I think history and one foreign language, but decided to keep it simple, so I originally majored in politics, but, not wanting to do law school or graduate work, switched to foreign languages. By the time I graduated, I was burned out with that area, and it did help me get a few jobs that required a bilingual in Spanish, but that got annoying after awhile. How is anyone going to adjust to life in the U.S. without any English? So I took medical terminology, and was able to use both that and my degree to do nontechnical work in a laboratory, which has proved satisfying. I looked at a medical interpreter certificate to combine both fields, but this will have to wait for financial reasons. Personally, I've sort of lost my interest in European travel, but I think one thing we could incorporate from there is more promotion of vocational/technical programs in the high schools. Not everyone is college bound, and perhaps the 'general' course of study that was offered at least in Florida high schools should be abandonned in favor of college prep or vo tech so that no one gets left out of marketable skills after graduation.
THat's the irony of the whole thing I think. Here in Idaho you see all these commercials that say at such and such a business High School is not enough. I don't mean to devalue a college education but overall I've heard that more people without some form of degree are employed and ironically making more money these days than those with them. I've thought about going back to college and I'd still like to someday, but not if it's going to require me to take out a bunch of loans that I'd have to spend the next twenty or thirty years paying back. ANd I don't and have never liked how a lot of voc rehab agencies for the blind, at least here in the US, seem to want to portray a college education and/or degree as some cure all and end all for unemployment when that's not even the case for sighted folks.
Very true. For awhile in high school, I thought I wanted to go to University, take several languages and become an interpreter for the UN. Well, that didn't happen, and I am honestly glad. I have taken two separate, unrelated years of college, and I don't regret either of them. But I do agree that high schools should do more marketable skills rather than academics so much. I mean, we had a program called Carreer and Personal (CAPP), and all it was was just a bunch of carreer tests; that's it. You didn't learn basic life skills like how to balance a checkbook, look for an apartment, buy a car, perform job interviews (um... isn't that part of career planning?) etc., etc., etc.
Sorry for the rant, but the college loans are ridiculous, and unless you are going into the medical field where you NEED a college degree and Masters and PHd, why bother?
I agree completely. it's sad that high school doesn't offer more of these. A lot of high schools now require you to have a certain amount of work experience before you can graduate, but most of the opportunities, at least in my experience, were volunteer. don't get me wrong. I had some really awesome times doing some volunteer working helping out with the music program at an elementary school, but that doesn't do any good on a resume now as far as serious job searching is concerned.
We did have a couple of business related classes at the school I went to, but for one thing, they were volontary, and for another, at least according to the staff members, our school was the only one in the province of BC to offer them, and therefore they weren't actually qualified as actual business classes with the standards of most colleges.
Bryan if you do decide you want to return to college, this is from experience: Examine your motives. Why do you want to return? What do you wish to get from a college education? Further your education? Or do you have a professional goal you wish to accomplish? From there, look around at your locale and what schools are there in deciding which one best meets your goals. If you simply wish to further your education, a community college could not only serve your needs but would be a lower price tag. Most likely if you wanted a degree, you could start there with your Associates' before moving to a four year college if you wanted to go in that direction.
I know how expensive it is to take even one class where I live. I'm thinking about and have looked into one Medical Interpreter program. I'm wanting something I could do on a part time or call in basis, and also something else I can list on a resume in case of job loss.
Now it's been 20 years since I've been in college, and the languages in demand here are Spanish and Portuguese (French is my second language). It probably would be easier to learn Portuguese as I don't know a word. Spanish...Should I start all over with beginners'? I don't think I'm that out of it, but would have to take a placement test in a traditional college or university, and Berlitz method (immersion) is available here, but I understand it's quite expensive. There are two schools with a medical interpreter program, and I like the one at the four year better, but to cut costs I'd probably have to take it on a non-credit level. That's why I'm postponing any schooling until my daughter has been in public school at least for a year because I'm paying for preschool and for summer arrangements for her right now. Really, anyone thinking about returning to school, it's best to ask yourself questions BEFOREHAND...that helps you avoid expending time and money into a commitment that can't be kept. And I also plan on teaching my daughter, before she enters high school, to spend these years coming up with a plan for her life and hopefully there will be more vo-tech programs in the high schools by that time if she's interested, instead of college, in pursuing this route to employment.
Wel as far as Twin Falls goes there's just one college, although it does apparently offer some courses online from other schools. As for my motives I've begun to wonder lately if a full college degree would make me more marketable in the job market, but then there's the possible catch-22 of spending all that time going to school and not being able to get a job in my field of study, which seems to happen with disturbing frequency these days from whhat I've observed. But of course I wouldn't object to simply furthering my education.
This is a refreshing take on a topic that's seldom discussed. I don't object to furthering your education for the right reasons, but when you're forced into it, and especially if you have little support, it becomes more like a chore, an enslavement, something that you do because you have to. Although I'm sure there are plenty of people who are quite happy to bend over and please whoever tells them what they think is best, I'm not one of them, and this has been a huge struggle in my acceptance of myself and my often changing ideas on what I want to do. So, while I don't object to getting a college degree, I also wouldn't object to finding something I'm truly passionate about. Is that a tall order in today's society? I don't know, and maybe some of you can help me out, since you've opened my eyes to the other side of this coin that up until now was just a murky semblance of a thought process.
I disagree, I willingly went in to college because more education and learning more is always good, isn't it? The more one knows the more one can operate in the world. and, time to learn, research, and think about life is useful.
if you actually conduct research into the people who are the top earners, you can see that they have either business degrees, or a Masters of some sort. It is unheard of to get a managerial posission with anything less than a graduates degree.
good thing I'm not interested in earning the most money, as long as I can earn some. and if I do go to college, it won't be for four to six years. Society, to this day, still wants to impress upon us that college is necessary. Therefore, the statistics that show that people who have degrees make more money are going to be the most readily available.
Here's an article I found that lists and gives a brief description of some of the jobs that do not require a college degree. Of course, it does suggest going to college if you can, but it is not necessary, depending what you want to do for a living.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/best-jobs-without-a-college-degree.html
Well Usman the problem with your statement is that there are not enough jobs in the U.S. that require a diploma of any kind.
So you get college grads who have 4 year degrees and work at Burger King because theres nothing out there.
I'm of the mind that college is now a dying institution. There are far too many careers out there that only require a certificate of some sort.
You have far better chances of being a plumber, or a PC tech then a businessman.
Exactly. training is necessary; degrees, on the other hand, are not. I get that quite a few careers require you to be certified before you can work, but going to school for 4-6 years is no longer necessary. Not to mention if you do, and don't end up getting a job out of it, you're stuck with debt you'll be trying to pay off for what will probably end up being the rest of your life.
rob, I understand what you are saying. However, one has to analyse this by viewing the job market from this perspective. If your applying for a job, and the posission doesn't require a college education, chances are especially in this day in age with people losing their jobs, there are going to be a lot of applicants for this posission. Therefore, having a college degree may help your cause as it will help to seperate you from the pack, as it were and potentially help you get that posission. So, we can see that a college degree isn't necessarily for that posission your applying for, but to help your chances of getting said posission by impressing upon the employers that you are more qualified due to your degree, even though it may not require one.
It will only help your cause if that degree gives you a specific advantage for that particular job. Nobody cares about an international degree when they need an engineer. Too bad academic people, you lost. End.
Anyone else on this thread actually hired people? Many of you younger responders promoting college as the preferred method sound like you've been listening to career guidance people, people who get paid no matter whether or not you get employed. It's all in how marketable you are when you walk in the door of that job, not how well-rounded or well-educated you are. I'm not saying that's how it should be, just telling you the way it is, after eating the bitter fruit of it for near about 20 years.
My thoughts exactly. a degree isn't going to get you shit if you don't have all the other things they're looking for. (I.E. experience, flexible schedule, and dare I say the right appearance).
A degree by itself holds as much authority as toilet paper in my view.
Most employers now look for experience rather then a degree now a days.
True, if you have your doctorate but no work history, you'll find yourself with no where to turn.
I have a B.A. in Sociology. I don't regret college, but it is kind of depressing how little knowledge I've retained, and how litttle of my education actually goes into my job duties. The agency I work for requires at least five years experience, or a college degree. I think degrees do matter, especially for us as blind individuals. I'm not opposed to changing career fields, but I think it's a lot harder to land a job as a blind person without one. I think relevance is key. The whole women's studies analogy listed above was great. I also think that experience and references count as much as a degree these days. I'd be interested to know how many of you know blind people who are employed? Do they have degrees? I only know maybe three blind people who are employed besides myself. And we all have degrees. I do think Voc Rehab does encourage education, but only if it's a relevant field. I know a blind woman who used to ork at our local independent-living center teaching braille. She didn't have a degree, and had few other marketable skills besides braile. She didn't finish with her B.A. and I think this really hurt her job prospects. Associate's degrees, in my oppinion are basically worthless, unless it's a technical degree, which I'm not opposed to.
Sorry, that should have been work for. Also, employers want to know that you did the time so to speak. Having a degree does give you a different perspective on things a lot of the time.